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Harper And Ignatieff Sound Off On The Ganja

Posted March 16th, 2010 in Canada and tagged , , , by Adrian MacNair

Personally, I think most long-time readers know what I think. Pot is a $7-billion industry in British Columbia and could be balancing deficits if it were controlled and regulated. But I’m not the one running for Prime Minister. What do the two big honchos think about it?

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff, March 15, 2010:

“If I had to tell you as a parent or as someone who has spent his whole life working with young people, the last darn thing I want you to be doing is smoking marijuana,” the federal Liberal leader said.

“I want you to be out there digging a well, digging a ditch, getting a job, raising a family … doing stuff, instead of parking your life on the end of a marijuana cigarette.”

Ignatieff held the town hall-style meeting Monday as part of a cross-country tour leading up to “Canada at 150,” a Liberal-organized conference on where the country should be in 2017 that’s being held later this month.

A number of organizations and interested adults also attended the event.

Noting he likes an occasional drink and having a good time, Ignatieff didn’t seem concerned if his anti-weed stance made him appear conservative.

“Given the things we need to do together, that’s what I think,” he said, adding that legalizing marijuana would create problems in dealings with the U.S. because the drug would remain illegal there.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper, March 16, 2010:

Well, it’s a good question. I’m not sure I’ve seen this particular poll. There are different polls on this subject that show different things, but you know, I have to say young children, I guess they’re now… Ben and Rachel are now getting pretty close to 14 and 11, but maybe they’re not that young, but they are at the age where they will increasingly come into contact with drug use, and I guess as a parent this is the last thing I want to see for my kids or anyone else’s children.

You know, I understand that people defend the use of drugs, but that said I think I’ve been very fortunate to live a drug-free life, and I don’t meet many people who’ve led a drug-free life who regret it. Met a lot of people who haven’t, who’ve regretted it. So this is something that we want to encourage obviously for our children, for everybody’s children.

Now, I also want people to understand what we’re really talking about here when we’re talking about the drug trade. You know, when people say focus on violent crime instead of drugs, and there’s lots of crimes a lot worse than casual use of marijuana. But when people are buying from the drug trade, they are not buying from their neighbour. They are buying from international cartels that are involved in unimaginable violence and intimidation and social disaster and catastrophe all across the world. All across the world. You know, and I just wish people would understand that, and not just on drugs. Even when people buy, you know, an illegal carton of cigarettes and they avoid tax, that they really understand the kind of criminal networks that they are supporting, and the damage they do.

Now I know some people say if you just legalized it, you’d get the money and all would be well. But I think that rests on the assumption that somehow drugs are bad because they’re illegal. The reason drugs are illegal is because they are bad. And even if these things were legalized, I can predict with a lot of confidence that these would never be respectable businesses run by respectable people. Because the very nature of the dependency they create, the damage they create, the social upheaval and catastrophe they create, particularly in third world countries… I mean, you look now, you look at Latin America, some of the countries to the south of us, and the damage the drug trade is doing, not just to people’s lives as drug users.

Look at the violence it’s creating in neighbourhoods, the destruction of social systems, of families, of governmental institutions, the corruption of police forces. I mean, these are terrible, terrible organizations, and while I know people have different views, I must admit myself sometimes I’m frustrated by how little impact governments have been able to have on the drug trade internationally.

But we should not fool ourselves into thinking that if we somehow stopped trying to deal with it, it would suddenly turn into a nice, wholesome industry. It will never be that. And I think we all need to understand that, and we all need to make sure our kids not just understand the damage drugs can do to them, but they understand as well the wider social disaster they are contributing to if they, through use of their money, fund organizations that produce and deliver elicit narcotics.

Mr.Harper makes a very convincing argument for taking marijuana out of the hands of criminals and into the regulation of government controlled substances. But then he follows it up with a rather unconvincing argument that marijuana is illegal because it’s “bad”.

Mr.Ignatieff doesn’t seem to mind pot as much, but thinks it leads to “parking your life on the end of a marijuana cigarette.” Which still doesn’t explain why alcohol and alcoholism is still legalized and taxed. Canada has some of the highest rates of taxes on cigarettes and alcohol in the world:

The Federal government collected $1.055 billion from GST and $1.221 billion in excise duties on all alcoholic products in 2004. Provincial governments have a great variety of different sales taxes and levies on alcohol, with widely varying rates between jurisdictions. Provincial sales taxes range from zero to 35% of retail sales price, and collectively generated at least $1.104 billion in 2004. Liquor licensing fees generated a total of $732 million across all provincial and territorial jurisdictions. The single largest source of government revenue, however, comes from the ‘markup’ or profit margin from government monopoly liquor stores, a total of $3.567 billion in 2004. Thus total revenue from the sale of alcohol in Canada in 2004 amounted to $7.678 billion.

14 Responses so far.

  1. BC BlueNo Gravatar says:

    Legalization would only work if the whole world would do it. One country in isolation would only become a haven…

  2. Kind of like BC is a haven? People are already smoking it whether it’s legal or not.

  3. dmorrisNo Gravatar says:

    Neither has a very realistic approach,Ignatieff seems to equate MJ smoking to heroin addiction,your life doesn’t end because you smoke MJ. MJ smoking is almost as prevalent as alcohol use, the percentage of young people who smoke is amazing, way more than when I was a kid in the 1960′s.

    Harper will be surprised one day if one of his coming-of-age kids gets caught smoking a joint, but as they enter high school and then university,they’ll have plenty of opportunity. Parents are always the last to know, especially those parents with the “Reefer Madness” attitude toward it.

    Legalize it. Tax it. Learn to love the massive profits.

  4. Yeah, we’ve had this conversation before, haven’t we? Some of the best tradesmen I’ve known are chronic potheads in the evenings or weekends. Course, I find the less reliable folks are the 20-something kids who get wasted on booze in the evenings and come in brutally hungover the next day. The older folks sucking back the MaryJane are good to go though.

  5. LNo Gravatar says:

    You should re-read Harper’s remarks – he makes no such convincing argument for taking marijuana out of the hands of criminals and into the regulation of government controlled substances.

    BC, by its stupid tolerance, is a dangerous magnet and haven for n’er-do-wells; the USA will not be Amsterdam west, so we should not set Canada up as drug lord central even more than it has become.

    Everyone I knew who did not graduate from univ moved to Vancouver Island.

  6. I’m not saying that Mr.Harper purposely makes an argument for legalizing marijuana. I’m saying that he paints a very nasty picture of what illegal drugs does to underground crime and the black market for marijuana. Unintentionally, he seems to make a strong case for taking drugs out of the black market, and into the mainstream, like alcohol, where it can be taxed and regulated.

    BC is already Amsterdam west. Ignoring that fact does nothing to balance the deficit.

  7. LNo Gravatar says:

    You forgot his other point – the distributors will never be paying HST or taxes because they are basically criminals. They will never be legit businesses.

  8. bobNo Gravatar says:

    See this is that arguement I hear from the pro-weed lobby all the time “Oh alcohol is legal and taxed… so are cigs… what’s the big difference??”. Quite simply, not much. HOWEVER… I dunno if you’ve tried to take something away from people once you’ve given it to them but it rarely goes over well. I’d LOVE to see cigarettes made completely illegal in Canada… but it’ll never happen. Alcohol is even tougher. So better to keep weed illegal than to legalize it and deal with the consequences and then if the consequences are worse than you anticipated to have a REALLY hard time getting it back out again.

  9. L,

    Maybe I didn’t make myself clear. It’s not the distributors that get turned legit. No, they get shut down or shut out, or go into some other illicit drug.

    If you legalized marijuana, you could licence growups to legitimate pharmaceuticals and other companies. They could be dispensed in pharmacy’s or government licenced stores, like the LCBO.

    Nobody honestly expects the local drug dealer to start paying taxes. Nobody is advising that.

  10. Bob,

    What are the consequences of legal weed? Better control? Higher government revenues from taxes? More jobs in pharma and farming? What?

  11. LNo Gravatar says:

    You make a good point, Adrian, that Canada should not ignor the damage being done. Neither cracking down more (US)nor legalizing will work. Other countries have tried both. Ignoring=legalizing, and it does not work here, as it breeds indulgence and use.

    Stepping back, though, I do think that this event was a good idea, as I would have never otherwise known what the PM thought about legalizing M. Within conservatives, we have lots of differing views, and the dialogue is a really good thing within and, beyond when it involves all Canadians.

  12. Anything that reaches out and communicates with the people is, I think, an effort well made.

  13. EricNo Gravatar says:

    Personally, I think Harper is right. Just legalizing marijuana won’t change the fact that the cartels are evil bastards engaging in terrible crimes.

    Legalizing it and taxing it will result in two markets, one legit and expensive, the other illegal and cheaper.

    Beyond that, Ignatieff is right, the trade repercussions from the Americans would be horrific.

  14. HaNo Gravatar says:

    There are no good arguments for the continued illegal categorization of marijuana. Making it illegal has done NOTHING to curb usage, especially among young people.

    Its a huge black market, and because it is illegal it empowers the criminal elements. This situation is so similar to alcohol prohibition that it’s insane.

    Does anyone still believe we should criminalize alcohol and that will stop people from using it? Clearly, cigarattes are the best example of using education to curb human behavior… legalization and education do work!!