I think some people will remember how upset CBC blogger Kady O’Malley got when I asked her how she had the time to pore over thousands of documents pertaining to Afghan detainees, but couldn’t spare a minute for the climategate leaked emails, except to declare them possibly illegal.
A similar kind of “calling out” of CBC journalist Rosie Barton occurred today on Twitter, when my friend Bruce Stewart asked her why she would possibly want a group of children to ask the Prime Minister about the census. Much like the detainee affair, the CBC has been nothing if not busy manufacturing outrage over the non-issue, and Ms.Barton didn’t take kindly to his suggestion that she wouldn’t know objectivity if it mauled her in a bear cave:
Don’t feel too bad, Bruce. I’m sure that in the halls of the CBC, the journalists simply assume that the biggest question on the mind of 8-year-olds is the census, and how the Conservative Party is destroying their future. Once you frame that idea in your head, it’s only logical to assume that everybody else is probably thinking the same thing. Particularly when you’re earning a six-figure salary to simply invent what should be important to Canadians.
I’m not sure who you work with or interact with on a daily basis Adrian, but where I work, a multi-national company with 500 or so employees in Saskatoon, the census is an issue. People aren’t talking about because of the CBC, but because of the Conservatives. They don’t understand why the Conservatives would do this and don’t buy the whole privacy issue (I mean, do you really care if the government knows how many bedrooms you have in your house?). Even those who support the Conservatives, and as this is Saskatoon and there are many, are perplexed by the timing and tone of the Conservatives – they don’t seem to care what anyone thinks about it. The real fiscal conservatives I know are outraged that once again, a move the government makes will actually cost us more money. Others are wondering why they would do it after the U.S. tried this before and failed. And still others, who have filed out the long form, wonder why anyone would have a problem filling it out.
So yeah, people are talking about it. Quit blaming the CBC – just because you don’t think its an issue doesn’t mean that people aren’t talking about it. People are. And I’m not sure why you are constantly trying to minimize that.
And yet the children are still unlikely to give a shit about the census.
Yes I do.
Just because it’s the the only thing in the news this summer, doesn’t mean “people care.”
In more important matters, did you see Anderson Silva submit Chael Sonnen on Saturday?
Ha-ha — I love it!
The census is a big fat non-issue, but that’s what these “professional” journos are hyped about.
Did you ever know that you’re my herooooooooo
I got the same treatment from Susan Delacourt. It was over something remarkably simple… but I don’t recall what anymore.
I’m sure my 8-year-old son is dying to ask the Prime Minister about it. Confound Stephen Harper and his Neo-con agenda!
Why do you care if the government knows how many bedrooms you have in your house? Its public knowledge really – all one needs to do is go to the municipal office or whatever and look at your floor plans. I have 3 bedrooms in my house. Working on a 4th.
Just because it’s the the only thing in the news this summer, doesn’t mean “people care.”
Again, I think you are minimizing people’s feelings. There is a lot going on this summer. In Saskatchewan we have had severe and serious weather. Our operations are located in northern Saskatchewan where hundreds of forest fires are burning. We have lots to talk about and people keep talking about the census. People care. Its how we learn and know about our country. You don’t care – fine. Don’t minimize everyone else’s feelings. It shoddy “commenting.”
Bah, Rosie didn’t even follow me back. And she stopped responding to my @’s, which means I guess I’ve been branded an enemy of the Mothership.
I am going to assume that you, nor anyone else who comments here has ever used the census or Stats Can reports for work or pleasure. And its not just government and community organizations and not for profits that use it. Big business uses it all the time.
If it’s public knowledge, why do they need to waste my time on a 40-page form?
So, the objective journalistic thing to do is to hope that a group of children will ask the Prime Minister of Canada about a 40-page form that results in the Jedi being the fastest growing religion in the country?
However did humanity survive for these millenia without a form that asks you how much unpaid household work you do?
In more important matters, did you see Anderson Silva submit Chael Sonnen on Saturday?
Sorry for the OT, but I was on pins and needles the whole fight, waiting for Silva to come from left field when they stood up. Sonnen has a tendency to get caught with triangles, but he owned that fight up until then. I was massively disappointed when Sonnen got caught with only two minutes left, but at least he showed everyone the blueprint for beating Silva. If they ever give us GSP VS Silva, GSP is going to grind Silva to dust. JMHO.
Would you rather have the government scouring municipalities for these stats or taking twenty minutes of peoples time and as a result, making it cheaper and more effective in the long run.
Let me try this a different way Adrian.
One of the comments I’ve heard from people is that they hate the top down approach of the current government. Unless I missed it, I had never seen a peep from anyone anywhere complaining about the mandatory long form census. Nada. All of a sudden, the government comes out, without any debate anywhere, and says this is what we are going to do. Pardon me? Don’t you think, all things being non-partisan, that maybe they could have, you know, asked some people what they thought. I live in a Conservative riding and heard nothing. In my business if we do something that affects the communities we work in, we consult and engage them – yet my government can’t do the same? Why not?
Well, for most of millenia we have not lived in complex societies and have not wanted to know such things. The census is about telling us who we are and how we live our daily lives. Its interesting to some of us and crucial to others (wonder why so many municipalities are upset?).
It’s not a matter of survival. It’s a matter of sound policy making and even keeping the government accountable. The better the data the better the implementation of the policy. It’s why Clement is still forcing farmer’s to complete the agricultural survey under threat of imprisonment: Clement says the agricultural census is used for valuable measures “that will help farmers,” adding, “The argument obviously to farming associations and to farmers is, ‘You fill out the form, it’ll help the government help you in your farming activities.’”.
Not at all, Michael. I wanted to devote an entire post to my thought, but I felt that nobody would really want to read it.
That fight was incredible. I couldn’t believe that Silva was made to look so utterly human. And I couldn’t believe it when Sonnen was finally caught in an arm triangle, the same one that defeated the 10-year winning streak of Fedor Emelienenko.
I don’t think there should be an immediate rematch though. Sonnen showed he can beat Silva, but let’s face it, he didn’t lose a decision. He lost decisively to a valid choke hold. It’s like the Toronto Maple Leafs losing to the Ottawa Senators 2-1, despite outshooting them 54-12. Ottawa is still the valid winner. There’s no subjectivity to it like a decision.
I do think that a Silva-GSP fight would be great at a catchweight of 180 or something. Although that would be harder for Silva to make, since he cuts from Light Heavy.
If Silva and Sonnen do fight again, I think Silva will train exclusively on takedown defence. Let’s face it: Silva has the heaviest hands in MMA. If Sonnen goes 5 rounds with Silva again, he could get KOed.
I watched Power & politics today with Evan back in the seat. Fair show although his cast of leftist commentators was overwhelming. He did a good job at moderating, with no invited guests from the government.
Yet he was viciously attacked in the CBC blog for not towing the company line of Harper hate attacks.
I guess a bipartisan commentator at CBC is a bad thing.
This is called a false dichotomy fallacy.
Probably because nobody who didn’t want to fill it out has filled it out. I know I’ve never done a single census in my life.
But now that we’re being given a genuine choice, we’re in support of that.
Oh, I’m sure it’s a heavy conversation at the water cooler…
The census isn’t telling us more about who we are. It’s a means of calculating information that enables the ability to pander to demographics, races, languages, and special interest groups.
To wit:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/07/26/stephen-taylor-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-canadian-welfare-state/
Nobody said the Conservatives were consistent in their logic.
Par for the course. They invite conservatives on occasionally, but they tend not to invite us back.
They had Kory Tenyecke for a while, but now they are devoid of conservative commentary. Andrew Coyne does a good job, notwithstanding.
Not a single construction worker in my crew had heard of it.
Probably because nobody who didn’t want to fill it out has filled it out. I know I’ve never done a single census in my life.
That is called wishful thinking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking).
I would think the more logical reason is that nobody made an issue of it because those who have filled it out saw it for what it was – twenty minutes of their life answering questions they were perfectly comfortable answering.
But now that we’re being given a genuine choice, we’re in support of that.
And you’re OK with statiticians and others saying a voluntary census will not work (like it didn’t work in the U.S.). And you’re OK with the extra cost?
And finally, you’re OK with not answering my point about the top down approach of the government?
It is absolutely telling us more about ourselves. How on earth can you say it isn’t? We know more about the population demographics, how they are changing over time, what the total capacity for population is (the infamous bedrooms question) so that planning for hospital beds & equipment, roads, electricity needs, etc. is more accurate and less wasteful. Am I a special interest group because I need the hospital, drive a car and use electricity and dislike waste in government?
That is FOR SURE.
On this, we absolutely agree.
No, seriously. Although I know that it’s technically mandatory, I never filled one out. Nor have many people I’ve talked to about this.
And yet Kady O’Malley’s entire career revolves around writing opinion pieces on voluntary survey’s about electoral prospects. Those survey’s tend to be very accurate by the way.
It wasn’t a point. You are of the opinion that government should micromanage the affairs of the population. I think that good public policy is good for everybody. We don’t need to know how many Pakistani immigrants speaking Urdu drive taxi cabs and do unpaid work in their 3-bedroom home in Surrey, because it doesn’t matter.
The census isn’t telling us more about who we are.
Well statisticians, economists, academics, big business, municipalities, provinces and other interested parties like me would disagree wholeheartedly. National Post commentators however, seem to be a different story.
It’s a means of calculating information that enables the ability to pander to demographics, races, languages, and special interest groups.
I am sure that for some, this is the case. But there are thousands, if not more, of people, organizations, businesses and government who use it for informing themselves about Canadians and in many cases, making public policy.
All the census is telling us is that minorities are “underrepresented” in jobs people want [but nobody cares about jobs nobody wants]. Why should I care?
Good public policy is good for everybody. The main difference between a liberal and a conservative is that while a liberal thinks that the government is there to fine-tune services for him, the conservative thinks that the government is there to provide services for everybody equally.
Peter D,
what possible usefullness can a survey taken in 2006 be to running your company today?
We have been thru the Great Recession, and those numbers from the 2006 census, the most current census, are absolutely meaningless today.
In fact, I would say that by the time the 2011 census reaches your desk in 2013, it won’t matter if that data was voluntary or forced by law, because it is already dated.
People move, get jobs, loses jobs, buy houses EVERY day.
And I resent that you think your profits are worth me being threatened with jail or forced to pay a fine to answer questions that are just none of your business.
Again, you keep turning to the importance of public policy. This is why our government is spending $300 billion a year in outgoing expenditures. Rather than provide people with basic services, we’ve created a monstrous government that micromanages every insignificant wish and desire of the electorate. And you people wonder why you donate 56% of your income to the government…
You are of the opinion that government should micromanage the affairs of the population. I think that good public policy is good for everybody. We don’t need to know how many Pakistani immigrants speaking Urdu drive taxi cabs and do unpaid work in their 3-bedroom home in Surrey, because it doesn’t matter.
No Adrian, my point was that the government, especially a minority government, has no right to make drastic changes to public policy without some input from the citizenry. There was no debate or public consultation about this. You don’t find this troubling, regardless of whether or not you agree with the result?
And I got the same treatment from John Ivison.
Not really, because ultimately the government doesn’t have a constitutional right to extract information from an individual under threat of fine or imprisonment.
I don’t care what the statisticians say about the unreliability of a voluntary census. It’s nonsense. It’s already voluntary, since those who don’t want to do it, like me, don’t do it.
You are digging your hole ever deeper. There are logical points against the long form census, even though I disagree with them, but you seem determined to avoid even those.
You cannot tell that minorities are underrepresented in jobs people want. And that is certainly not the only thing you can tell from the census; that’s just stupid talk.
Not even a conservative believes the government is there to provide the same service to every citizen. That’s just stupid talking.
One thing for sure: supporters of this dumb move only come from those already on the far right, while opponents come from every group, belief, political stripe, economic demographic in the country.
You’re on Twitter, Wilson?
On the contrary. It is those very basic services – infrastructure, hospitals, roads, power, sewage – that rely the most on accurate and reliable census data.
The policies are going to be made. Starving the policies of accurate and reliable data is only going to make them, and the spending on them, less efficient and more wasteful.
My opinion has nothing to do with political ideology. I’ve always opposed the mandatory aspect of the long form census on the principle that the government has no fundamental right to extract information under threat.
As a devotee of collectivism, I understand if you might not understand.
Peter D says:
Well, for most of millenia we have not lived in complex societies and have not wanted to know such things. The census is about telling us who we are and how we live our daily lives. Its interesting to some of us and crucial to others (wonder why so many municipalities are upset?).
If it’s so crucial, why are other countries abandoning it? All the information you speak of is available from other sources…and more accurate ones, at that. 160,000 people reportedly refused to fill out the last census…what does that do to the accuracy of it? What about all the people who did fill it out, but *lied* because they were pissed-off at having to fill out a 40-page form or because they thought the questions were too intrusive? Do you really believe that there 55,000 Jedi Knights in Canada? Who would pay for (or base serious research or public policy on) such ridiculously flawed information?
And hey, are you one of those people whining about the Conservatives building more prisons? You should be happy; where else are they going to jail all those census-refusers that you clearly want to see imprisoned?
(and you DO, don’t you? Otherwise, why are you trying to make such a big deal of this when no one but the reporters really care? The public certainly doesn’t…check the poll numbers…)
Where I work (which is all over the place, so I meet a wide variety of people) the only time the subject of the census comes up is when someone wonders out loud why the news media is fixated on such a trivial issue; my answer is always that it just goes to show how lucky we are here in Canada that we don’t have any problems with health care, unemployment, the economy, crime, foreign policy or any of that other stuff that seems to plague other western nations. We can instead devote all our time to trivial, unimportant issues that no one really cares about…like this one.
Ok, two things. First, if, as Ted and Peter and every other Liberal or NDP supporter say, that the long census is vital for Candian survival then surely the vast majority of Canadian homes that get the long census will gleefully and dutifully fill it out. Considering there are 65% of Canadians who are either Bloc, NDP or Liberal supporters then the long census will be filled out by more Canadians then ever before, its a simple as that. Second….not to be a nitpicker but, just when the hell have the Toronto Maple Leafs ever outshot the Ottawa Senators and lost? And third, a question that will be asked sooner rather then later during an election…just what kind of punishment do the Liberals think a taxpaying Canadian should receive should they decide NOT to fill out a long form census if they are returned to power?, and, if the taxpayer decides NOT to pay the fine what should the punishment be then? I know the polls are tied right now, but come on…its like you guys are throwing big fat juicy fastball at the PM.
So you’re saying that a city can’t know that infrastructure needs to be built, or hospital rooms expanded, or power supplies increased, or sewage treatment upgraded, without asking people who write “Jedi Knight” on the census what their opinions are?
Yeah, you’ve totally convinced me, dude.
I agree, Sonnen shouldn’t get a rematch right away. But he should get one at some point if Silva is still the champion. And I hope that if that happens, Silva cans the excuses, like the one about his ribs. That was lame to even mention that after the way he was owned for five rounds.
I’ve heard some speculation about Silva’s chin after that fight and I have to wonder. I remember his fight with Rivera, where Rivera delivered five consecutive head strikes in the clinch. Silva smiled, said something to Rivera, and then put on a Muay Thai clinic before knocking him out two minutes later. Then he got staggered by Sonnen. True, he also took solid shots on the ground against Horn and Chonan, but Silva has never been hit, full on, with a good strike at distance. Consequently, Silva has also never been cut. We’ve yet to see how Silva handles fighting after getting hurt.
And back on topic – Fire. Them. All.
Fred,
I take it the commenting is working now? Not deleting your information?
‘Big business uses it all the time.’
I call BULL on that one Peter,
big business does not use the census,
that’s why they have not come out against it,
and neither does the Bank of Canada use the census,
because the data is old old old by the time it is finalized and published 2 years later.
Yes, it’s definitely bad form to mention an injury as an excuse of poor performance. If you knock somebody out in 45 seconds and then say that you were reluctant to take a fight because your ribs were bruised, that’s something entirely different.
Silva’s chin still seems to be granite. But Sonnen isn’t known as a KO fighter. Silva has played peek-a-boo with a lot of fighters in the past and gotten away with it. He also drops his hands and he can take a punch with seeming immunity. I don’t know how he does it.
He did seem to get rocked in this fight. I’ll have to download the video in order to watch it again so I can see just how much he was hurt. According to some sources he was outpunched something crazy like 230-11, but a lot of those were weak hammer fists and the like.
I was a little surprised that Silva didn’t clinch and Muy Thai Sonnen like he did with Rich Franklin. Maybe Rich should have taken Silva to the ground in his fights.
I expect that Silva will rebound from this fight with a KO.
As a devotee of collectivism, I understand if you might not understand.
I have to ask you about that last comment Adrian – what is the point? As someone who derides others for their unfairness in reporting, it is comments like that that make me shake my head at you. Its unnecessary – if you want to host a site that creates real debate and conversation, be a good host. Hyper-partisan assholes are a dime a dozen on the internet. Its because its easy.
The Ag census and the counting the population, are the ONLY census required in the Constitution.
Not really, because ultimately the government doesn’t have a constitutional right to extract information from an individual under threat of fine or imprisonment.
Do you have any stats of those who were imprisoned or fined? I would be interested in those.
I don’t care what the statisticians say about the unreliability of a voluntary census. It’s nonsense. It’s already voluntary, since those who don’t want to do it, like me, don’t do it.
So if its voluntary, then the threats of imprisonment are untrue. And I thought you said that you never were asked to fill one out.
But is it inaccurate? I mean, isn’t that what we’re debating here? I’m not being rude or an asshole.
You and Ted are arguing for the “greater good”. The collectivist argument.
I’m arguing for individual rights. The right to tell the government to f-off.
It’s the principle of the thing.
Libtards are dragging their straw man around the net, our liberal betters keep telling us our schools and roads and infrastucture are in danger if the long form census doesn’t remain criminalized. What a load of bull shite, none of the municipalities in my zone use stats Canada to plan for infrastucture zip nadda. When they start spouting off communist dogma alal the collective you know you have a dingbat on board.
There is a criminal case coming up in September where a woman has been persecuted for not filling out the long form census, she’s arguing that it’s a Charter Violation Blue Like you has the link to the story MSM isn’t reporting.
Of course the leftards alla CBC are desperate and as such children will be used as a pawns. If Harper can neuter Stats Canada the Mother Corp fears she’ll be next. Here’s hoping so.
Um…well, yeah Peter, I do care that the Gov’t knows how many “bedrooms” I have – this whole manufactured outrage over the “scrapping” of the census is pure,unadulterated crap!!!!
But then – psuedo scandals are nothing new to you Liberals are they Peter!
And yeah, I blame the CBC for lying to Canadians about the facts of the issue.
So Peter = just what is a stat about how many bedrooms going to do about anything – other than allow the info to be sold to interested parties….and – that is what this is all about, isn’t it. This information was sold and money was made off it.
Well it is time that those who want to know how many bedrooms I have paid to get their own information instead of jumping onto the taxpayer funded info and getting it for a song.
So sad, too bad Peter – get your info about my bedrooms somewhere else!!!
I have yet to hear anyone explain why the stats from a voluntary census would differ from a mandatory one. I myself was forced to do the longform in 2006. Repeated phone calls, and on the last day to fill it out, the woman on the phone told me I would be fined $500 if I refused (Kinsella had the same experience).
Yep, Lefties think it’s an outrage to ask someone for id for security at a summit consisting of world leaders yet it’s somehow OK to force me to give up private information.
By the way, if there is this overwhelming support of the census as Peter says, then I’m sure he and his co-workers will have no issues filling out the voluntary census, which will be sent to far more households than the mandatory, and provide accurate answers.
I’m still waiting for any of the idiots at the CBC to explain exactly which questions on the long form they are going to miss.
Being that they are so upset about all this, surely they would be able to explain which questions they consider to be important and why.
It is not the mandatory part that makes it more accurate, but the randomness. A voluntary census will, almost by definition, result in an inaccurate reflection of the demographics because certain groups respond to voluntary surveys and certain groups do not and we have no way of measuring how much of which groups do and don’t.
For example, educated and healthy people tend to respond in far greater numbers; poor and unhealthy and the very old and the very young (adults) tend not to. As a result, as every single statistician and regular users of survey/polling data will tell you, you get a skewered picture of the country that can’t be made up for by weighting or other means since the census is the base data for weighting. So, when you have limited resources in government, the data from a voluntary survey would lead you to believe you need more parks and schools and roads, and less old peoples homes and public transit. What it doesn’t do is reduce government spending on programs.
Your house is your house. But it is unlikely to always be your house forever. Long term planning looks at the number of bedrooms and can get a sense – not a perfect picture of course but better than nothing – about the total potential capacity needs for the area. It is all about good planning.
Adrien:
For me it is not at all about anything collectivist.
Doing jury duty is not, to me, about collectivism, but it is mandatory, far more intrusive than a survey very few people get once every 5 years. It is about civic duty and the “responsibility” part that goes with “rights”. Do you oppose mandatory jury duty under threat of imprisonment? Unlike with the census, the threat of imprisonment and fines are real.
It is about good policy mostly though. The money is going to get spent. Making the census useless is just going to make the government spending less efficient and more poorly allocated and therefore more wasteful.
I’m 100% with the conservative think tank CD Howe Institute on this one. Accurate data is a critical weapon in the citizen’s fight to keep the government accountable.
Not true. We can already see that those who don’t want to fill it out don’t do it. And if by coercion, they lie. Some accuracy.
I never expected the left to champion the idea of submitting absolutely to the state.
No. That is not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying without the accurate data of the long form, they will be taking the “educated” out of educated guessing at how much power, how many hospital beds, what kind of hospital beds and equipment will be needed in 5, 10, 15 years, and whether with limited resources it would be better to allocate funds to X, Y or Z in city AAA.
Big business does indeed use it, Wilson. And many have come out and called the Harper government on its stupidity on this decision. And yes, spending way more for less useful data is stupid in anyone’s books, even if you don’t agree the decision to make it voluntary was stupid.
Less than 7% of the forms were not returned. The sample size, combined with the randomness of it, make it the most accurate “poll” we have of the questions asked. There is a built-in assumption of error and inaccuracy of 1-2% which is still close enough to make the data reliable. Certainly way way way way way more reliable than a voluntary census.
You are trying to do two things here Adrien. Attack the “coercive” nature of the census on principle. That I get even if I think it a very weak argument (we permit far more coercive, far more intrusive government acts for far less important matters). I even respect the principled view on this.
But you are also trying to say the census data is useless and your arguments on this point, like with Clement and Harper, are so uninformed and baseless that they undermine your credibility on the principled point. NO ONE who uses this data – left, right, private, public, academic, business, government – and NO ONE (other than those who oppose it on principle) takes the view the data is useless or not being used or just as good as data from a voluntary census.
I’d stick with the principled argument if I were you.
With this response Ted you look like you have lost your mind. Surely you can do better. Shame on you.
You mean to tell me Ted that without a long form census no one can figure out that we need more money for the people who need it and that we spend too much money on the people who dont? Problem with politics is the few that need the most help get caught in pissy little games like these. In Ontario, a 16 year old child with Autism is cut off from medical and clinical help, how does a long form census help those parents? There are elderly people in this Country right now that pack lunch’s and go to the Emergency room in the hopes of seeing a Dr because, well, they dont have one. Explain to me how a long form census gets them a Dr? I’m starting to become very exasperated with Mr Harper because, he’s becoming more Liberal every day and ignoring the basic issue’s for pissy little games. But hey, lets all bicker about a stupid census that no one cares about and that does nadda to help out the ones that need it most.
What submission is there, let alone “submission absolutely”??? What a bizarre bit of overblown hyperbolic rhetoric.
I actually wasted the last 10 minues of my life reading the comments thread here. Adrian, let me say this, critical thinking isn’t your strong point. Cheers.
It’s possible I didn’t explain myself very well. But what the data collectors do with the infamous and oh so intrusive data about number of bedrooms is assess how many people are in the living in the area and how many people could live in the area without new construction. You don’t build a sewage system only for today’s population. A city can control new construction, but it can’t control someone who owns a 5 bedroom house but uses only three of them (like we do) selling to someone who will have kids in all 5. So knowing the out maximum population the existing dwelling spaces is useful planning information.
And, frankly, I don’t see it being very intrusive, especially given that in the mandatory short form you must list the names of everyone living in your household which to me is far far far more intrusive than how many bedrooms. But folks like Adrien think one is part of a collectivist absolute submission to the state and state coercion and one is A-OK. Bizarre.
I’m sure you’ve experienced greater disappointments in life, Jeff. To your parents, for instance.
Wow. Thanks for proving my point. Good luck with the hammer. Looks like this whole writing gig isn’t working out so well.
Feel free to leave your comments in my National Post entries as well. I’m certain the readership there would appreciate your lucid contributions to the discussion.
You surely can’t be a lefty, however, having just made a demeaning remark about the working class trades.
You surely can’t be a lefty, however, having just made a demeaning remark about the working class trades.
Actually hot sauce, I made a demeaning remark about you. I imagine you swing a hammer about as well as you construct your arguments.
Not to worry though, there’s plenty of time to reinvent yourself in another town and in another job. Sticking with stuff doesn’t seem to be your strong suit.
ps. can’t believe you’re referencing the Post. You’d be better off with one of the Sun Media papers, at least your pals at work actually read their papers.
Not to worry back at ya, Jeff. It’s impossible to “win” an argument with a person of your self-evident shortcomings. I can, at best, shake my head sadly, and say that in my 16 years on the internet, this is one of the weakest, mildest, most timid attempts to hurt my feelings yet.
Indeed, this is one to share with the wife in collective chuckles and deep and satisfying sighs.
Indeed, this is one to share with the wife in collective chuckles and deep and satisfying sighs.
Indeed.
Adrian, it’s not the census that’s the issue here. What people are really upset at is Stephen Harper, they just don’t have the intelligence to admit it. What’s really amusing about this census non-issue is that the people railing against the dropping of the mandatory requirement are the same ones that would be comparing Harper to Hitler if he was changing it from voluntary to mandatory.
In BC, decisions are only made on the basis of who are friends and developers of Campbell, so the census might be only used for propaganda.
There is a trend here – any time the federal government wants to cut small parts of programs, a great hew and cry emerges from the free-loaders and special-interest groups.
Paul,
Thanks for elucidating that. One nit to pick. They have the intelligence, but not the intellectual honesty.
Case in point:
http://farnwide.blogspot.com/2006/09/stevie-stalin.html
Read the article. I read Chretien’s biography, not because I wanted to be like him, but because I wanted to understand him. The blog post was good for something: It confirmed my suspicion that Stephen Harper knows how to read. (‘Magine…all the lefties thought that the old Reformers were all too redneck to read, you know, out hunting and drilling for oil all the time…)
Fred,
I take it the commenting is working now? Not deleting your information?
Well, I’m being more careful now (keeping better track of my cursor position and slowing down a little). It was probably my fault all along…I was just pissed at losing 10 minutes worth of typing to one bad keystroke, I think…:(
Ted says:
But you are also trying to say the census data is useless and your arguments on this point, like with Clement and Harper, are so uninformed and baseless that they undermine your credibility on the principled point.
No one is saying that, Ted (nice try). They are saying that the information is available elsewhere, and that forcing people to answer questions isn’t the best way to get accurate data even if the information wasn’t available elsewhere. How about a tax credit or a small cheque mailed out as compensation for filling out the form? Why do we need to THREATEN people with fines or jail terms?
And while we’re on the subject, what about all the other polling firms (Ipsos, EKOS, Harris Decima, etc..) operating in this country. They never threaten people. Are you saying that all their information is useless, then?
This is a non-issue blown all out of proportion by desperate opposition parties and a bored news media. The Canadian public simply *doesn’t care*, Ted, and there is no way you can possibly make this into an election issue. Deal with it.