Photograph: The Globe and Mail
The ugly, divisive, politically motivated “Afghan detainee scandal” came to a head today in the House of Commons, after House Speaker Peter Milliken gave the government two weeks to hand over the documents which the federal Conservative government say are state secrets. The ruling has precipitated the expectation that the government will not comply with the demand, forcing a confidence vote and an election.
If it does come to that, there will be hell to pay for downing the government over such a peripheral, unimportant issue. It’s bad enough that Canada has completely dropped the ball on the Afghan mission, turning what was supposed to be a Parliamentary Commission on the mission in Afghanistan to report on and recommend changes and improvements in the country, into something of an arm of the opposition party to investigate ridiculous second-hand torture claims.
But to actually defeat the government over something that happened over three years ago, and mainly because of a flawed transfer agreement initially created in haste by the dithering outgoing Liberal-Martin government, is just too much. To watch the opposition play political games over a mission as important as the one in Afghanistan is nothing short of disgusting.
The Special Parliamentary Committee on Afghanistan initially created in 2008 on the recommendations of the Manley Panel, was supposed to travel to Afghanistan and investigate the direction that Canada should take on the mission there, based on observations and discussions with experts and military personnel. In short, it has done none of that. All it has accomplished is to listen to testimony from people complaining that Canada is “complicit” for torture that may or may not have happened after Canadian Forces obligingly turned over captured enemy combatants to the NDS, as per the terms of the transfer agreement with the sovereign nation of Afghanistan.
The women and children struggling against the Taliban in Afghanistan must be looking to our obsession about the treatment of bearded fanatics for whom a favourite pastime is burning down girls’ schools, and wonder to themselves what we can possibly be doing. The insignificance of the treatment of detainees is ever more apparent as one juxtaposes it to the seemingly ceaseless suicide bombings against civilians and IED’s planted on roads by the Taliban.
If Canada had been besieged by such concern for the treatment of Nazi prisoners of war sixty years ago, there is no question that our country would have abandoned the war effort. This postmodernist, MTV-raised, attention deficit disorder generation of pacifists masquerading as the voting age public of Canada has no idea what it takes to win a war, so susceptible to the propaganda of the enemy are they that they would rather defeat the government over the alleged second-hand treatment of prisoners than win.
“This is a huge victory for democracy,” NDP Leader Jack Layton said ironically, after the statement by the House Speaker.
Yes, democracy. But for whom? Not for Afghanistan, ignored for the past two years as we rifle through tens of thousands of documents about detainee treatment. If we paid one-tenth the attention to the treatment of the innocent in Afghanistan, we might have a more stable, secure country right now.
There will be a backlash if the government is defeated over the issue, although there have been some hints that a “compromise” will be reached. Those paying attention, however, will note that the opposition has repeatedly used extremely unethical wedge issues to play political games in the past several months.
The detainee issue is but one of several wedge issues intended to create the kind of atmosphere ripe for bringing down the government on manufactured outrage. Another one is the backdoor abortion debate Michael Ignatieff started with the maternal health plan for CIDA. Yet another is the gun registry, that blew up in Mr.Ignatieff’s face as not even the Liberals in his own party could contend with such a vote-killing position. Omar Khadr is yet another uncomfortable wedge issue for the opposition, which is quickly gaining a reputation for throwing their support behind brigands and terrorists.
Some Canadians who already think that Stephen Harper and the Conservatives are what’s wrong with this country, will welcome such wedge issues with open arms, jumping at the opportunity to defeat the government and go to the polls, just to return yet another minority government. After all, with a public debt of $517 billion and counting, what’s a few hundred million more?
But there will be plenty of us who watched the opposition orchestrate this outrage for nothing more than political benefit. And we will swallow whatever dislike we have for the government record, and punish the opposition for choosing to go to war on detainees, rather than support the war that matters.
OTHER OPINIONS ON THE MATTER
The Speaker took the easy way out:
This opposition fury has too much personal political gain within it to be credible. They are not going to compromise. They are entitled to their entitlements you know.
The Milliken ruling is not a win for anyone:
Every time the redacted documents were released, what did the members on the opposition benches do? They immediately invited the media in to take a look and spoke about what they saw on the televised politics shows.
Nip the institutional game in the bud:
Give Ignatieff, Duceppe and Layton five days worth of meetings. Following that, table a series of proposals on how to arrange document access while waiting for the mission to finish, and make the approval of at least one a matter of confidence.
We shall see then how much the opposition is willing to play games with the institution of the Speaker. Before the two weeks are up we will either have a sworn committee or a dissolved Parliament.
Witch hunts do more damage to the hunters. The Libranos’ quest for a smoking gun to lay low the Tories hasn’t yielded the results they wanted. It’s not just a matter of finding something to make the government look bad; it’s finding something to make themselves look good in comparison. They haven’t done so yet, and it’s not likely that this lot ever will.
Regardless of how you feel about the detainee issue and whether it is a valid concern, today’s decision by Speaker Milliken is important because it confirms that Parliament is supreme, not the government. It’s an important check on government power.
Also, you claim: “If we paid one-tenth the attention to the treatment of the innocent in Afghanistan, we might have a more stable, secure country right now.”
How has the stability and security of Canada ever been in danger because of what goes on in Afghanistan? Please explain.
I’ll bite. What does it take to win a war?
Ishmael,
This isn’t about testing the limits of power by the government. We all know that Jack and Gilles and Michael don’t care about torture in Afghanistan. If they did, they’d note that those who report having been tortured are down from 43% to 29% since the Taliban were ousted.
As for my claim about how the detainee issue has harmed the mission, it’s easily backed up by the fact that, as I said in my post, the Special Parliamentary Committee on Afghanistan was created with the express purpose of visiting the country and reporting on the situation on the ground.
The Committee has not visited Afghanistan in the two years since its creation, and has instead listened to frivolous testimony about events that happened years ago.
We are losing focus on the enemy here, and the imperatives of mission success. For the women and children and the innocent in Afghanistan who deserve a better life and a better future.
It takes a concerned effort on our part to stay focused, create objectives. Clear, hold, build.
Thanks, Adrian, for a thoughtful piece. This issue has never been about democracy, but always about finding a wedge issue to embarrass the government.
It will be interesting to see how the Opposition parties deal with this. I suspect the NDP and the Bloc will not be too co-operative, whereas the Liberals, with a possible eye to some (hopefully distant) future situation, may have an incentive to find a workable solution, ie making the Iaccobucci appointment work.
The thing is, if this were about financial documents for the deficit, or refusal to share vital information about a particular ministry, that’s one thing.
But it’s painfully obvious to me that this is entirely politically motivated, and worse, on an issue they don’t genuinely care about.
We are at war. Security of documents is paramount. What more would one need to know?
It is very obvious also that this is a wedge the opposition trotted out again in the hopes it would stick and have gone to great pains to do so…they make their committee public…they wave about documents and let media have them and meanwhile..our soldiers are fighting in Afghanistan AT WAR.
Off Topic Adrian:
how please do I get the footer you have about the blogging tories…I saw that Stephen Taylor said he had it but he gave no code for it…the only code one can get is for those who want to join the blogging tories…
Any tips on how I do it please for my blog?
Sure, I can help you. What sort of blogging platform are you using? WordPress? And are you able to use JavaScript?
OK. No argument there. I wasn’t sure if you were mounting the “terrible things happen in war” defense against allegations of criminal activity.
You have to admit that this whole kerfuffle definitely says something about us as a country. Only Canadians would worry more about indicting themselves for war crimes than the enemy.
I know. You don’t hear the Taliban HQ calling the media to tell on us.
I don’t think Harper will or should bend on this issue, not with avowed separtist’s sitting in the house.
Imagine the political mayhem the Bloc could unleash being privy to state secrets. The speaker’s ruling opens the door wide open to anything the opposition takes an interest in without regard to the loyalty of said members or the practical logic of the request.
The purpose of governing is to govern. In reality, there are only temporary secrets, since a new government when elected, becomes privy to all that has happened.
It’s a sloppy ruling, couched in arcane precedent, tossed right back into the house like a bag of over ripe bananas.
This is not an historic ruling, it’s running for the tall grass.
Great post Adrian! And I would be interested in the same thing – how to apply the footer in WordPress. Thanks.
Imagine the political mayhem the Bloc could unleash being privy to state secrets.
Exactly! It’s the coalition all over again.
Another excellent article. This was never about the Taliban, our mission or Parliamentary democracy.
It has been always been about a narrative of wedge politics. The Board of Internal Economy can’t be bothered to share detail of $ 500 million on expenses, how they spend our money.
The speaker did not do any favours by letting this drag out for two more weeks.
I would prefer a national address from our government about the line in the sand.
The speaker, liberal, ndp, bloc mp’s may be comfortable playing russian roulette.
I have not been active in Federal Politics for a very long time but this door to door canvassing is a no brainer.
Blue Wave II
What was The Opposition wanting, afterall, but to make some case to the public, that the Canadian military was directly or indirectly responsible for abuse of detainees?
How does The Opposition, (those select few), make that case if they must sit on the information?
Is it a given that the leaders of The Opposition will have to be included in the reveal?
Milliken will share a searing responsibility should the Opposition fail to hold the information secret, and something goes terribly wrong in Afghanistan. He only gets one duck-out.
Adrian I use wordpress and it tolerates javascript as I have my own domain… I think Joanne does too.
I like what has happened. We need to go to an election. Functioning as a minority govt is a b***h. We need a majority.
Bring on the election.
Looking to Vote… look at the media…they dig up things…katie o’malley has whatever she gets directly or indirectly put out there on the internet… there is no way there is a secretive and private way for this committee to do what they want to do…besides that… they are itchin to tell…believe it !!!!
“If it does come to that, there will be hell to pay for downing the government over such a peripheral, unimportant issue. I
…
But to actually defeat the government over something that happened over three years ago, and mainly because of a flawed transfer agreement initially created in haste by the dithering outgoing Liberal-Martin government, is just too much.”
Actually, if the government is defeated it will be over the question of whether Parliament is supreme v whether Harper gets to be a dictator instead of a Prime Minister. And it will be Harper’s choice to be defeated over this issue. He could easily avoid it by simply complying with the ruling.
In any event, the suggestion that our national security would be imperilled by swearing a few members of the opposition in as members of the Privy Counsel and allowing them to review the documents is irrational. Basically, some people here are suggesting that the democratically elected MP’s would prefer to see our soldiers die than protect our national security interests. Now I get you little tiny tory types may be angry your boy lost today, but if you actually believe most Canadians are going to believe that opposition members are going to put our country at risk, then you are beyond any rational argument.
What is obvious to me is that many of you secretly believe the government did know about torture allegations and did nothing about them – and you are worried about what will happen if that comes out.
Stephen explained it in this link:
http://www.bloggingtories.ca/joinbt.php
Gayle, we thought you had lost your way…but you found it to a number of blogs I expect… what would an article be without you…
Phantom that link you gave is for those who want to join the blogging tories list..and it tells them where to put things…
I do not think it is about the footer thing which is at the bottom of Adrian’s page.
I don’t think Harper will or should bend on this issue, not with avowed separtist’s sitting in the house.
Imagine the political mayhem the Bloc could unleash being privy to state secrets.
Oh brother! Ok, one more time with feeling: The Bloc exist democratically; people voted for those MPs and they have seats in the House of Commons.
Also, this may come to you as a complete shock, but we Quebecers pay federal taxes just like the rest of you do, so of course the Bloc should have a say in what goes on in parliament.
Next, if you’re all so convinced that Harper will win next election, then a coalition shouldn’t matter to you, now shouldn’t it?
What is obvious to me is that many of you secretly believe the government did know about torture allegations and did nothing about them – and you are worried about what will happen if that comes out.
Gayle, I have been saying that for the longest time; thanks.
After all, if nothing happened as the rest of you seem to believe, then Harper shouldn’t have anything to hide, now should he? If as Harper says, and the rest of you seem to defend quite vehemently, this is much ado about nothing, then how can “nothing” be so detrimental to national security?
See, you’re focused on Harper obeying the commands of Parliament. I’m focused on WTF it matters whether Taliban detainees scraped their knees after leaving Canadian custody.
Doesn’t make any sense, since I don’t have a partisan interest in this. I care about the mission, and the integrity of our soldiers.
Frankly, I don’t care if the detainees were dipped in apple sauce and served with dinner. It still has nothing to do with the mission in Afghanistan. Nothing.
Which also has nothing to do with the mission in Afghanistan. A vast majority of Quebeckers don’t want to be in Afghanistan anyway, so their opinions hardly can be viewed as unbiased on this matter.
Gayle says:
“Actually, if the government is defeated it will be over the question of whether Parliament is supreme v whether Harper gets to be a dictator instead of a Prime Minister.”
My question Gayle, is do you trust the Bloc?
By what rational do you place your faith in an avowed separtist party to respect state secrets.
When you can answer that question, then we can reasonably debate the merits of your argument. Without a 100% loyal opposition, your position is without merit.
Adrian,
I have helped both NB Tory Gal and Joanne behind the scenes. They can both use Javascript as both are now on wordpress.org hosted sites. It is only the free wordpress.com where that can’t be done. So, they are okay. You can give away the code.
I’ll just post it here for others:
In the WordPress dashboard, find “Appearance” and then “Editor”. Locate the file “header.php” and edit it.
Find </head>
1 line before it, add this:
<script language=”javascript” type=”text/javascript”
src=”http://www.stephentaylor.ca/scripts/btbar.js”></script>
Save and then edit “footer.php”
Find </body>
1 line before it, add this:
<script language=”javascript” type=”text/javascript”
src=”http://www.stephentaylor.ca/scripts/dobtbar.js”></script>
Now you’re done.
Some here don’t seem to realize that the documents are not just about detainee complaints of torture. There will be intelligence reports about Afghan citizens who have helped the NATO mission. If their names are released, they will be tortured and killed by the enemy immediately.
Should we not protect the lives of those people, the ones who have actually tried to improve their country?
The naivety and partisan spin expressed by Gayle and ck is breathtaking.
Well Adrian, your laughable efforts to portray yourself as non-partisan aside, if it were really true that it does not matter if people were tortured, then why doesn’t Harper just give up the documents?
Where are your posts urging him to do so?
Do I think the Bloc is going to release information that puts Canada, and by extension Quebec, at risk?
No. No I don’t. They are the Bloc, not the FLQ.
If that’s all you have, you don’t have much.
Because I imagine he suspects, quite rightly, that the opposition will wet their pants with glee if it turns out that any Taliban prisoners were roughed up after they passed through the hands of Canadian Forces.
Such a thing would give them the manufactured outrage they need to pursue their partisan agenda of making the Conservatives look bad.
Oh, and the reason I am focused on Harper obeying the demands of Parliament is because that is what today’s ruling is all about.
If there is an election that is what the election will be about to.
Maybe try to get your facts straight.
But if no one cares about whether the Taliban are tortured, what does it matter?
If there’s an election, the only thing I’ll focus on is that the opposition was so utterly shamelessly partisan, that they defeated the government rather than help it address the actual important issues in both Canada and Afghanistan.
Truly the Liberal Party is scraping bedrock with its fingernails.
I know what is in the documents.
I am just not so monumentally stupid to believe any MP is going to put lives at risk by releasing top secret information.
They are MP’s. They are not satanic psychopaths.
I never said no one cares whether they’re tortured. I said it doesn’t matter in a grand scheme of things. There’s a fairly huge difference.
“But to actually defeat the government over something that happened over three years ago…”
If these means you and the other brainless ideologues are going to finally shut up about Adscam, then it was all worthwhile.
I’d like you to point out when or where I ever mentioned AdScam.
Waiting.
Waiting.
Yeah, I didn’t think so.
I believe Iggy’s friend Amir Attaran would hand over those names to the taliban in an instant. He does not come across a a friend to Canada or its military.I wonder why the MSM hide his long history with Iggy?
This is why the British call a minority a Hung Parliament. Stephen Harper has done an amazing job in this minority government to guide us through this recession. Now we need an election so Canada continue to prosper and excel under Stephen Harper’s leadership.
ck says:
Okay, one more time with feeling.
The Bloc exists to realize the dream of an independant and sovereign Quebec.
Are you suggesting that the Bloc would never use access to state secrets to advance the goal of independence?
So, it does not matter to you what the majority of Canadians care about? We do not count because we disagree with your world view?
Good to know.
Sigh
Adrian, if the government is defeated it will be because the government refused to recognize the supremacy of Parliament.
If being a democracy is not important to you, at least try to recognize that for the rest of the country it is pretty damn important.
In any event, I take your comment as an acknowledgement you were wrong to say the government would be defeated over torture allegations.
You’re being manipulated by Iffy and Jack for their own political agenda. It has nothing to do with a worldview or otherwise.
Think about it. How could the treatment of prisoners after Canadian soldiers already handed them over have to do with Canada in any way, shape, or form.
It doesn’t.
Defeating the terrorists in Afghanistan is more important to me than the leg-humping detainee affair.
Are YOU suggesting the Bloc would be happy to see people killed in order to achieve their goal?
Dear lord. Try to understand that not all people are stupid enough to believe that.
Actually, I am pretty damn capable of thinking for myself.
But it was a nice try to make this about me.
And of course it has everything to do with Canada. Clearly Harper thinks so – otherwise why would he even bother with a prisoner transfer agreement?
But let’s follow your logic through – what does what happens in Afghanistan have to do with Canada at all? Why are we sending our men and women there to die?
Oh, and I love the way you dodge the point. According to you, it does not matter what Canadians who agree with Ignatieff and Layton think.
I guess you really don’t care for democracy.
And yet, this is about democracy.
Maybe try to get your facts straight.
I’m not going to get into a discussion about why Afghanistan is important for our country. If you can’t understand that, I can’t explain it to you.
But again, you’re missing the point. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter what Canadians who agree with Ignatieff and Layton think. I’m saying those two are using this issue as a wedge. They don’t give a damn about democracy or detainees or pink unicorns.
They only care about themselves and winning the next election.
Hey. Right back at you, because Harper does not care about the mission in Afghanistan, and he does not care what people in Canada think. He cares about power, pure and simple.
In any event, you obviously failed to follow my point above. If Canadians do not care about what happens to captured Afghanistan prisoners, why should we care about anyone?
We care because the mission is important, and the way we conduct the mission is important. You cannot distinguish the two. If we are doing important work then why debase it by breaching international law while we do it?
If you want to lecture anyone about international law, lecture the Taliban.
I said the Bloc would be tempted to abuse access to state secrets to advance the cause of independence, not go out their way to kill people as you so shamelessly suggest.
The issue of loyalty is the question.
So please tell me why the government should allow the quiet seditionists of La Belle province to have any say in governing beyond bitching about transfer payments?
When the Bloc runs candidates across Canada, I’ll be happy to revisit this debate as to whether the Bloc has a real case for accessing issues of national security.
No idiotic opposition has ever asked the Government to reveal it’s complete security files in the middle of a war!!!! These people are all insane and they frighten me. You can be sure that the sole and only reason that they want access to complete files is to reveal and spin “findings” to the press and the public that they think would embarrass the CPC! I hope that Canadians will understand that we can trust not one of these people with the information as they have no good motives.
You know what? They do. They do frighten me. They terrify me, in fact. They really really do.
God help us all if we’re ever actually invaded. We wouldn’t stand a chance.
Former NDPers are on the case.
Top clearance military files should not be open to any and all latte-drinking, naive, hug-a-terrorist or separatist MPs who never support the defence of Canada, even if Parliament is “supreme”. There is a narrow need-to-know circ list for very good reasons, and a lot is not open to Cabinet Ministers who have no need to know. The fact that this motion even went forward shows a complete disrespect for DND, DFAIT and government in general. If they do not back off in the next week, we will be going to an election.
The Speaker said a couple of things. To wit:
“(1)Parliament does have the right and expectation to request to see documents to hold a government to account;
and
(2) the government, any government, has the right to refuse when there are concerns for issues of national security and privacy.”
NOT REALLY A RESOUNDING VICTORY, FOR EITHER SIDE, AS ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN WOULD READILY HAVE TO ADMIT.
……………………………………….
“But if no one cares about whether the Taliban are tortured, what does it matter?”
PERHAPS, JUST POSSIBLY, IT MIGHT MATTER ONE HELL OF A LOT IN THE AREA OF NOT WANTING TO RUN THE RISK OF DIVULGING ANY BIT OF DETAILED OPERATIONAL SPECIFICS, WHICH COULD BE DANGEROUS, IF NOT FATAL, FOR OUR MILITARY PERSONNEL SENT INTO THIS SPECIFIC THEATRE BY THE GOVERNING LIBERALS OF THE DAY.
…………………………………….
“If these(sic) means you and the other brainless ideologues are going to finally shut up about Adscam, then it was all worthwhile.”
‘BRAINLESS?” – HARDLY!
“IDEOLOGUES?” – PERHAPS, BUT THEN AGAIN, IF ONE WERE TO BE HONEST, AREN’T WE ALL?
BUT YOU – EXHIBITING ALL MANIFESTATIONS OF LIBRANO DERANGEMENT SYNDROME – APPARENTLY EXTREMELY UNINFORMED AND VERY MUCH UNAWARES. NOT TO MENTION, DOWNRIGHT RUDE TO BOOT.
NOW, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION. THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION, OFFERED FREE OF CHARGE I MUST ADD, MIGHT HELP PREVENT YOU FROM AGAIN MAKING A STRIDENT, SHRILL OAF OF YOURSELF, PROVING YOUR IGNORANCE AND SUSPECT MANNERS, IN PUBLIC, FOR ALL TO SEE.
ADSCAM IS STILL UNDER POLICE INVESTIGATION. CHARGES AND INDICTMENTS ARE PENDING. ANY NUMBER OF LUCKY LADS AND LASSIES OF THE UPPER ECHELONS OF THE LPOC, WAIT IN TREMBLING, BREATHLESS ANTICIPATION.
…………………………………………
AND . . IF THE BLOC STRIKES ANY OF YOU AS BEING NOT AT ALL CONNECTED TO FLQ THINKING, OBVIOUSLY, YOU AND I HAVE NOT SHARED THE SAME TIMES AND LIFE EXPERIENCES. THIS FACT WOULD PROVIDE A SOLID BASIS FOR US TO KNOW THAT WE THEREFORE WOULD MOST LIKELY NOT SHARE REMOTELY SIMILAR VIEWS, INTERPRETATIONS AND UNDERSTANDING OF HISTORY.
ASIQ, CLN, RR, R.I.N., F.L.Q., P.Q., B.Q. PLUS OTHERS, WHOSE “NAMES” UNFORTUNATELY ELLUDE ME AT THE MOMENT.
ALL ARE PART OF THE SAME CONTINUUM.
THEIR HAVING BEEN “DEMOCRATICALLY ELCTED” DOES NOT NEGATE THE FACT THAT THEIR INCEPTION AND CONTINUED EXISTENCE AMOUNT TO TREASON AND SEDITION.
………………………………………………
AND NO, I’m not “shouting” with caps. Merely trying to separate my comments and those comments I disagree with.
tj
t.e.&o.e.
That one is easily answered – because they are Members of Parliament, and the government is accountable to them.
It is really not that hard.
“If you want to lecture anyone about international law, lecture the Taliban.”
Let’s get this straight.
You don’t care about democracy, and you do not care about the rule of law.
What exactly do you think we have to “teach” the Taliban? – that it is OK to have a dictatorship and ignore the law so long as Adrian McNair agrees with the dictator?
Yet another irrational comment about how the liberals are going to release information that will endanger the troops.
Because, I guess, the LPC do not care one whit about the lives of Canadian citizens.
I really, really hope the CPC try to run with that one.
The people of Afghanistan don’t give a damn about alleged treatment of men who throw acid into the face of women to teach them about Islamic mortality.
They care about the security of their family, jobs, health care, housing. You know, all the things the Taliban want to destroy?
When the dust settles in Afghanistan, the people they’ll thank will be the ones who helped them build a democracy. Not braying jackasses like the Liberals and NDP who wanted to give up the war because we couldn’t guarantee a perfect bill of health for guys caught trying to plant IEDs.
Oh my. Let’s not get hysterical or anything.
The MP’s are asking the documents be released to them, and have already indicated “state secrets” will remain secret.
But the only way you people can justify your objections is by suggesting the MP’s will all commit treason, and release the documents. You suggest that if we are ever invaded, the fact the opposition requests documents they are clearly entitled to see means the country cannot defend itself.
Hey – don’t forget to mention the opposition have secret satanic rituals where they try to raise Sadam Hussein from the dead to take over the world.
Anyway…
What do you care about building democracy in Afghanistan? You are cheering the dismantling of democracy in your own country.
PS – Harper has been pretty firm that the troops are leaving in 2011. Last I checked he was not a member of either the LPC or the NDP.
You really do not get how national security works, Gayle, but enuf feeding of trolls.
You mean, satanic rituals seeking the return of Sadam Hussein WON’T risk our national security?
Well thank god for that!
” know what is in the documents.”
of course you do gayle. right.
A visit to the Polls for a mandate will clear up the matter of democracy.
People are supreme, not MP’s.
The MP’s are temporary guests entrusted to act loyal to us.
Your pathological hatred of Harper is blinding you.
Adrian is NOT a partisan shill, wrong guy Gayle.
The intolerant, disloyal MP’s should have demanded other documents, like expenses (Board of Interntal Economy).
You goofed, too blind to see the nationalism and need to protect our troops, mission.
Don’t worry your cabal will get a lesson delivered at the ballot.
The pathological hatred of Harper (see Gayle) is too great, facts and his delayed ruling warning to both sides did not register with them.
They are still chasing the wafer.
Someone MUST be leaking documents details if Gayle has the goods. I would guess that the info would be flowing to Coalition’s high ranking “non-pols.”
I think the bar is in that second set of code on the page that Phantom references, but it’s too techy for me. I see there is a Blogspot tutorial, but I need a WordPress one.
Will the Bloc ever be in Canadian Government? (as opposed to Parliament)
Why not?
I rest my case.
“I am just not so monumentally stupid to believe any MP is going to put lives at risk by releasing top secret information”
Really Gayle…are you really that dumb to believe that they won’t whisper in someone’s ear?
Wow….Gayle this is about how our country is waging war in Afganistan….since you really have let it slip that you really don’t know, what the PM is concerned about is not Taliban roughing up, it is about military secrets that could get others killed.
BTW, you do know that it was the Harper Gvt’ that changed the detainee transfer program after the Liberals turned their backs on it, don’t you?
I am gobsmacked at your stupidity, Gayle.
And I know, it says more about me than about you, right – thought I would save you the time typing that line.
Oh, balby…don’t worry Adscam will finally be put to rest when we get our money paid back and we find out all the Liberal MP’s who were involved.
Until then, Canadians will remember.
[...] at war. The information that the opposition parties demand could possibly affect the mission and the very lives of our troops. If ever there were a time for sober second thought, this is [...]
Gayle you seem to forget the past…the Liberals under Stephan Dion screamed the place down until they got what they wanted…an out date for afghanistan…and they held out till then before supporting the government… so the exit date you can take the blame for Gayle…
It’s the Bloc that is dancing around and clapping with glee yesterday and today…they are claiming “victory” – and I do not feel this man, in his heart, feels at one with Canada…he has a cause and this is his venue.
“…are you really that dumb to believe that they won’t whisper in someone’s ear?”
Clearly you are stupid enough to think so.
Alberta Girl believes if the opposition has access to the names of Afghan citizens who have assisted our troops, our elected MP’s will release that information knowing that will mean our allies in Afghanistan will be killed. That would make them accessories to murder.
In short, AG think the opposition MP’s are murdereres.
Oh please, please, please run with that one. Make those allegations during an election campaign. That would almost certainly secure a majority for the liberals, and the obliteration of the CPC.
ha ha ha
Maybe direct your comment to Sandy, since she is the one who pointed out the documents contain intelligence reports that will include the names of Afghan citizens who gave aid to our troops.
But don’t let that pesky little fact get in your way. Facts rarely do…
Last I checked, I am not a member of the liberal party and not a sitting liberal MP, so I cannot take the credit for anything they have done.
That said, I am more than willing to credit the liberals with supporting February, 2011 as the withdrawal date. I simply point out that Harper has gone on record emphatically endorsing this date, and refuses to discuss any extension.
Or maybe you think Harper is just to weak and powerless to change his mind???
So your case is that no MP can be trusted with secret documents unless there is a chance that MP will be in government some day?
That is not an argument. That is a weak excuse in order to defend your position.
Wow….you really are stretching there Gayle…you must be a liberal/ndp/bloc member…only they could stretch a comment into something else entirely and create a scandal around it.
Think of all the times that “leaks” have happened to fall into the media’s hands, think of all the times the opposition have taken something someone said out of context and then used it to slander and smear the government, think of all the so called “scandals” that have been created through assumption and innuendo.
Really Gayle – have you been living under a rock for the past four years….you go round and round in circles never making any sense in an effort to twist logic into something it isn’t. Case in point – that last comment of yours.
Sigh…
Gayle – you do know that if ANYTHING comes out from those documents, it will mean that the opposition members whispered to their friends in the media – time will tell – do I trust them – not on your life given their past performance.
Nice try at putting words in my mouth though – just another one of your “tricks” at twisting and turning comments around.
Shorter Gayle…Trust us, we wouldn’t do anything wrong!
Gayle said “Last I checked, I am not a member of the liberal party and not a sitting liberal MP, so I cannot take the credit for anything they have done.”
Prove it!
Sorry you won’t give benefit to CPC Ministers or PM so can’t extend the same standard.
You don’t apply Rule of Law, natural justice in your tirades against CPC.
So put up your identity so we can confirm you are not a card carrying socialist party member.
“It’s not that hard” ha ha.
I’m saying that MPs whose sole purpose is to facilitate the breakup of our country and put their own province first should not be trusted with sensitive Government documents.
Even Dion and Layton didn’t try to suggest that the Bloc be in the Cabinet during the coalition crisis.
Thanks Adrian and Sandy.
O.K. I see that the answer is further down in this thread. Thanks everyone.
Gayle is our resident Amir Attaran, Tori.
Hmmm, Jack Layton in the news again. That wouldn’t be Taliban Jack, would it?
Quote: “This is a huge victory for democracy,” NDP Leader Jack Layton
How about another TJL “quote”, made while formulating policy on the “Coalition”, before the last election and before signing the “agreement” with the rest of the Caolition partners:
“What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?”
http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/11/transcript-of-ndp-conference-call/
Nice link jt. The coalition couldn’t even keep its own coup d’etat plans secret.
Nice link above. The coalition couldn’t even keep its own coup d’etat plans secret.
Gayle: “I know what is in the documents.”
Really? You then have a security clearance? Who do you work for?
[...] at war. The information that the opposition parties demand could possibly affect the mission and the very lives of our troops. If ever there were a time for sober second thought, this is [...]
The Bloc did not want to be part of the coalition government.
The documents affect Quebec and its citizens. There is no reason to bar the Bloc from viewing them. You are just trying to justify Harper’s actions, and it shows.
If you are so worried about leaks, why is it ok for the CPC to have access to the documents?
The truth is, you are not concerned at all that the opposition will “leak” information that will ultimately result in harming one of our allies. You are worried they will leak information that harms Harper’s government.
You’re a little late. See my comment to tori above.
at least sandy has had experience working within the govt, assisting with government officials…and I’m guessing she had access to all sorts of protected documents.
I’d seriously take her experience over your “knowing” any day.
Weak. Very very weak…
Nice try though.
———–0——————
–the last one out please turn off the lights…we’re done here….
[...] “The ruling has precipitated the expectation that the government will not comply with the demand, forcing a confidence vote and an election. If it does come to that, there will be hell to pay for downing the government over such a peripheral, unimportant issue. It’s bad enough that Canada has completely dropped the ball on the Afghan mission, turning what was supposed to be a Parliamentary Commission on the mission in Afghanistan to report on and recommend changes and improvements in the country, into something of an arm of the opposition party to investigate ridiculous second-hand torture claims. But to actually defeat the government over something that happened over three years ago, and mainly because of a flawed transfer agreement initially created in haste by the dithering outgoing Liberal-Martin government, is just too much. To watch the opposition play political games over a mission as important as the one in Afghanistan is nothing short of disgusting.”Unambiguously Ambidextrous blog post – ‘There Will Be Blood!’ [...]